Posts by Juan Viejo

64

Any current Good Standing JW, posting here?

by NotaNess in

i was wondering if there are any current regular posters here that are still active , but are mentally inactive and don't believe all the bull anymore, and are just going through the motions to keep their life with friends and family together.. i realize this might be a posting that will probably get 0 replies, but.......

Juan Viejo

Gary1914 -

Read your remarks and totally cracked up!!! An elder who not only has a sense of humor, but is devious too. Too bad there aren't more like you in the ORG.

The funny thing is that I knew that a lot of elders (congregation servants in my day) totally fudged their numbers. One brother who was working trying to get to be one of the top three often reported 35-40 hours a month and 3 or 4 bookstudies. He'd always drop the rest of us off in a neighborhood and then leave to "run an errand," "swing by the KH," or "go visit a sick brother/sister." He' always get back about 10 minutes before we were to leave the territory and then sit in the car making notes.

We all knew what he was up to, but he was smart, gave a great public talk, and was fairly handsome. He also had a pretty wife and a couple of cute kids. Above all he loved to joke around and kept us laughing all the time. So we just let him be and never said anything about his sneaking off - although my Dad knew what he was up to, but never said anything. His attitude was that he could not judge the guy, only Jehovah could do that.

He finally made it to Ministry School Servant and was Book Study Conductor. I left before he went any higher.

I would have done the same, except that I wanted out - not up. So I just quit trying. Broke my parents' hearts 'cause they really wanted me to go to Gilead or Bethel. They didn't have a clue...

14

KNOCKING - DVD Release / What to Expect/ Scenes

by Joker10 in

jw
friends

the knocking dvd comes with a 48-page study/discussion guide.

it includes information about the making of the film, all the main characters, their early history, expansion, civil rights, their community structure, their preaching methods, and distribution of literature ( that adds up to their annual operation expense of over a billion dollars).. some dvd scenes include:.

people from stratton, ohio being interviewed along with the mayor.

Juan Viejo

Agreed. There should be a part 2 to this documentary. Having been on both sides of this situation I understand how the Witnesses can look very good in a prefunctory examination. They show a lot of love and fellowship between each other. They are typically an easy going, peaceable bunch. Most are extremenly honest and could be trusted with your house or car keys, your wallet, or your wife. They don't cuss much, don't smoke, and for the most part are moderate in their use of alcohol. All those points should be emphasized. But hey - the same description would apply to Mormons and many other religious groups.

The other side of the coin should be explored as well. I know of no religion that actively discourages individual reading and study of the Bible, freedom of expression and outside research. They tell their followers that everything they need to know can be found in the Watchtower and Awake! magazines. They deny that they shun anyone, and then go out of their way to ignore, avoid, or just plain shutout completely former friends, family members and former spouses. They want to preach their "truth" to you, but shut their ears to any kind of dialogue or debate - even non-confrontational discussion. The classic example is that Witness overseer that was called to testify about shunning who lied in the witness chair under oath. When he was read direct passages from the Watchtower discussing shunning and disfellowshipping, his immediate response was not that it was from the Watchtower publications, but rather if the attorney had found the quotations on an "apostate website."

Unless you've been on both sides of the issue you really can not judge the Witnesses fairly. The documentarians need to take that next step and really explore the underbelly of the Witness society.

JV

54

Special Assembly 2-Day 2,000 delegates and TWO baptisms!

by MinisterAmos in

jw
friends

just got back from the special one day assembly and had to share this important info.

only two baptisms today; two girls about 15-16 out of 2,000 attendees.. i stumbled more than two with my anti-witnessing.

i posted un expose material in the bathrooms along with pre and post nov 1995 1914 generation belief.. incidentally, attendance was down almost 25% over last year as well.

Juan Viejo

Rebaptism seems to be a new twist. In some cases it seems to be taking the place of repentance (washing themselves clean of their sins in the manner of John the Baptist). In other cases as a way to testify that they really didn't know what they were doing before at the first baptism because they were too young (immature, married a Witness, urged by their parents, peer pressure, etc.)

The real issue here is not whether they, in good conscience, believe that somehow rebaptism is a cure for past failures or lack of real commitment. The issue is how the Society treats these dips for accounting purposes. There doesn't seem to be any Biblical support for rebaptism in connection with repentance. If there was, there would be a lot of Catholics and Orthodox members that would need to go do it again - unless they really knew what they were doing at their christenings.

I still think the Watchtower might be quietly recommending this approach so as to boost their baptism numbers, if not their membership rolls. Like reporting hours in door-to-door service - it's mostly smoke and mirrors.

JV

54

Special Assembly 2-Day 2,000 delegates and TWO baptisms!

by MinisterAmos in

jw
friends

just got back from the special one day assembly and had to share this important info.

only two baptisms today; two girls about 15-16 out of 2,000 attendees.. i stumbled more than two with my anti-witnessing.

i posted un expose material in the bathrooms along with pre and post nov 1995 1914 generation belief.. incidentally, attendance was down almost 25% over last year as well.

Juan Viejo

Having participated in several Circuit Assemblies when I was younger and then keeping tabs with old Witness friends over the years, I can assure you that there was and is a lot of leeway as to what could be said during a convention speech. But you have to remember that all of the public talks, funeral speeches, and even the CO speeches are so scripted these days that they contain no surprises. So there isn't much leeway to be exercised.

I attended a recent funeral for a Witness friend and found the speech to be almost an exact carbon copy of (including quoted scriptures) of one I had attended some five years ago. Can you imagine being active and having to attend a half dozen of these affairs every year?

Even when the brothers try to enhance the talks a little by moving things around or substituting a scripture or two, no one really notices because it's all really just the same old pablum. At assemblies, any "new light" or policy change is saved for the keynote speech by the highest ranking person there (although Fred Franz often would give the "new light" speeches at the national assemblies when Knorr was president).

BTW - as far as the number of baptisms are concerned, even those are suspect. Many JWs who have DA'd or DF'd get rebaptized to show their new and updated commitment. One relative of mine was rebaptized because the first time was when she was a teenager. In spite of her service and faithfulness over many years, she felt that the first one really didn't take because she wasn't mature at the original time. There seems to be some encouragement on the part of the Society for this type of re-dedication. I am not sure if they identify redips in their numbers, or just ignore those category and lump them altogether with total dips. In any case, it would tend to distort the results of their witness work if they didn't break out the redippers.

Juan Viejo

60

Pictures- Just for fun

by RichieRich in

jw
friends

i was just browsing through my files, and came across a few cool / neat / weird photos i thought i'd share.

these are from my trip to bethel in mid-april of last year.. .

there i was, right outside hq.

Juan Viejo

Now I've seen it and...

I believe! I believe!!!

Great picture!

JV

42

You know you're an apostate when...

by MsMcDucket in

.

i'll start off with... .

when you go to a jw convention and then go to a casino the same night.

Juan Viejo

Your probably an apostate if you...

Read "Gospel Fictions" by Randel Helms -

Suck on your finger when you've cut yourself...

Rent "Van Helsing" from Netflix.com...

Own a red two-door coupe...

Laugh at the Blue Collar guys when they do the "Big Deck" scenes...

Call only your siblings "brothers and sisters"...

Juan V

60

Pictures- Just for fun

by RichieRich in

jw
friends

i was just browsing through my files, and came across a few cool / neat / weird photos i thought i'd share.

these are from my trip to bethel in mid-april of last year.. .

there i was, right outside hq.

Juan Viejo

I'm sorry, but the picture on the roof doesn't look real. I think it must be faked. After all, there's no airplane in the near background...

Juan

307

SERVICE REPORT 2005 : WATCHTOWER FEB 1ST 2006

by BluesBrother in

i have had a quick look and found no references to this, so - here goes..as in the mag we picked up on sunday.. worldwide % increase over 2004 = 1.3%.

memorial partakers 8524 (compared to 8570 in 2004).

most european and nth american lands show pretty static figs - britain 1% increase, canada 0%, germany 0%, france 1%, usa 0%... but spare a thought for the inhabitants of zambia where 1 person in 90 is a reporting witness, must be hell going down to the local market!

Juan Viejo

I'd like to add something to the circa-1975 issue brought up by David2002.

My father, mother and sister were all active during that period. They did everything they could to convince me and my brother that 1975 had been specifically pointed out by Franz and others in the GovBod as the start of Armageddon. Many of the Witnesses were quick to sell their homes, quit their jobs, and lay out plans for what they would do when the big bang started.

I can tell you without any reservation that my family was convinced by everything they heard at those last few conventions, what was printed in the Watchtowers and Awake! magazines - and from what the CongServs were saying during meetings - that Armageddon was coming in 1975. Many who expressed doubts, especially as 1975 began to evaporate, were chastised by others in the congregation and were often subject to special visits by Circuit Servants as they passed through for their semi-annual visits.

After 1975 passed, the whole approach changed. Now the faithful, like my family, were chastised for "going ahead of Jehovah" - for imagining that the TowerSoc had told them that 75 was the big year. I remember that my father sheepishly called me one night to tell me that he and my mother had all but committed a horrible sin by trying to convince me that 1975 was the beginning of the end.

It was the classic case of white being called "black" and black being called "white." The innocent were fingered as the guilty, while the guilty simply decreed that the innocent were wrong - not them.

My parents congregation in the mid-West was decimated by the effects of the prophecy of 1975. For the most part, only the older folks or those who had family attending hung in there - while newer converts, singles, and those with non-believing family got out then.

It was a situation that was so unbelievable at the time. Prior to 1975 you could be disfellowshipped for commenting that 1975 might not be the year, and then after 1975 you could be disfellowshipped for pointing out the TowSoc's prophetic failures.

I wished with all my heart that my parents and sister would finally see the light and get out - but it was not too be. Their brains had already been overcooked by the TowSoc's lies and manipulations. All they had at that point were their friends at the KH, so they stuck it out. 30 years later they are still stuck in that quagmire.

Juan V

18

So, You Want To Be An Elder?

by metatron in

jw
friends

i'm writing this in the spirit of full disclosure and honesty.

if you really want to be an elder, you should get the whole story and honestly.

weigh how it may affect your life.

Juan Viejo

Thank you very much for the kind words and welcome to the bbs. I have so many bad memories of my relationships with the various servants at my local KH - and this was in the 50s-60s when the more restrictive rules on DF and DA were not in place.

JV

18

So, You Want To Be An Elder?

by metatron in

jw
friends

i'm writing this in the spirit of full disclosure and honesty.

if you really want to be an elder, you should get the whole story and honestly.

weigh how it may affect your life.

Juan Viejo

Although I loved and respected my father very much, it was clear to me that during the 1980's when he was in his mid-70s, that his mental faculties were failing. Now in his 90s, he suffers from Alzheimers and will spend his remaining days in a care facility.

The problem was that he was still an active JW and on the rotating commitee of elders in his Kingdom Hall. My father was never very bright, and tended to see everything in black and white. He was one of those Witnesses that was convinced (after sending me books and Watchtower magazines that clearly stated the prophecy) that he and all the other JWs had only assumed that 1975 was going to be the start of Armageddon. When I quoted right from the publications he sent me in 1974 and 1975 that said that everyone should expect Armageddon to arrive in the Fall of 1975, he still refused to reason with me. He kept saying that the local JWs were so hopeful that they "went ahead of Jehovah" - but not the Watchtower Society and the old geezers sitting on the Governing Body.

I commented to my sister on a couple of occasions that I could not believe that Dad could sit on the KH elders commitee and make reasoned decisions about the fates of other members. He could barely remember his own name or what had happened to him the day before. And the fact that the KH would even let him serve in that capacity was ludicrous. My sister would just comment that Jehovah was helping him and that Jehovah would really be making the decisions for him.

Kind of like having Ronald Reagan run for a third term...

I wonder how many younger brothers were attending that would have loved to have held that position - that really could have been effective - but couldn't until my father resigned from the commitee or simply could not show up any longer.

I wonder how many of the Governing Body during the 1980s and 90s were suffering from various stages of Alzheimers or geriatric dementia, and yet were still making decisions for the entire organization. Kind of a scary thought, huh?

Juan Viejo